Friday, April 6, 2012

How neutral does EVE University get to be?

After the success of the University's lowsec camp in the Hagilur pocket, they've decided to create a nullsec camp. That should prove to be popular with many of the longer term members who don't quite know what to do with all their skill points.

(Some preamble to begin. Scroll down to Neutrality, if you want to get to the meat of the post.)

Caveats

There are, of course, caveats to any such move. The lowsec camp already decreased PvP roams via the Ivy League Navy [ILN] (the University's PvP department) by an estimated 50%. The lowsec camp runs unto itself and is not under the auspices of the ILN. Most of the skilled pilots in the University, including ILN officers and taskforce coordinators, moved to the pocket for the frequent good fights available in the area. The ILN has since became a shell of its former self, its experienced fleet commanders off in Hagilur fighting pirates. The newbs, too new to feel comfortable roaming in lowsec, were left without much in the way of PvP training. Audio classes galore, but practical experience became slim pickings.

Now with a nullsec camp being constructed, every last dreg of PvP experience will either be in the lowsec camp or the nullsec camp. The ILN will be on life support. Practical newbie PvP training will be something folks reminisce about: "Remember back when the Uni used to run fleets out of Aldrat?"

Whereas newbies are quite capable of operating in lowsec, it's certainly not the culture in the University to suggest to any new player to head to lowsec. University members either avoid lowsec for most of their EVE careers, due to fears instilled early on, or the braver ones eventually find out that all the fear-mongering was just a bunch of hooey, discovering the joys of the lower security systems on their own.

There are a lot of potential benefits to the University setting up a camp in nullsec (just as there have been since setting up camp in lowsec), but it all depends on how they handle the situation, the inevitable brain drain that's going to occur. The Hagilur pocket is close to University operations (seven jumps). So it's logistically easy for the experienced pilots to still take part in newbie training. The brain drain, due to the lowsec pocket, while obvious and pronounced it did not damage the newbie experience. The issue that's been affecting practical PvP training for the University newbies is time, not logistics. If you're having fun hunting pirates, you have less time to teach.

The new nullsec camp, though, is going to be deep in Test Alliance Please Ignore [Test] space. Fountain, to be exact. Granted it will be in an NPC pocket within Fountain, but no easy trip in and out. Forty or so jumps from University homebase. (Sure sure, jump clones exist, but with the twenty-four timer, for only a couple hours of lessons nullsec dwellers are going to find it hard leaving the fun, to be locked down in highsec for a full day.) The brain drain will be pronounced and severe. Practical PvP experience given to those remaining in highsec? It's going to disappear entirely.

Neutrality?

So, why set up the first nullsec camp in Fountain? And how does this affect the University's much vaunted neutrality?

The arrangement. The University gets access to all of Test's jump bridge network. They get access to Test's markets and stations. They are free to operate within Fountain, with Test as a friendly blue neighbour. A friendly blue neighbour that is likely more than willing to help the University when overwhelmed by existing occupants (Godfathers and others.) In exchange, Test alliance gets nothing (or so the official stance would suggest.)

Of course, the reality is that Test gets quite a bit. They have a new channel of recruitment. If you're an EVE University graduate, and your intention is to head to nullsec, where might you start your alliance/corporation search? Test alliance, of course.

Test alliance also gets another corporation to help defend the homeland. The official University line is that they will not get involved in any Test conflicts. That may be true with respect to conflicts that occur outside of Fountain space. But let's say that Red Alliance, at some future date, decides to attack Fountain. Is the University going to tuck tail, evacuate all their assets back to safe space, not firing a single shot to defend their new friends and their new home away from home? I would doubt it very much. That's not a particularly grateful attitude.

So, defence of the homeland. Test gets to train up a home defence fleet under the auspices of charity and education. Classes. Guest lectures. Joint fleets. Training according to Test standards. After all that Test has done to accommodate the University in Fountain, it's a tad hard to believe that the Uni would abandon their new friends if a time of need happened to arise.

Test also gets a brand-new partial pet alliance. Not the entire alliance, but certainly all of their PvPers.

The University sets Test to blue standings. Test sets Ivy League to blue standings. That's the given. What of the rest of the Clusterfuck Coalition [CFC]? According to the University, Goonswarm standings will not change (they'll continue to remain as is, which in nullsec means targets.) Exactly how is this going to work? It doesn't happen often, but Test and Goonswarm do fleet together for non-PvP activities. Ripping through missions. Ratting. Incursions.

So, a Uni fleet is out on a roam. Finds a nice juicy Goonswarm target, perhaps a ratting Tengu, and pops it. That Tengu was part of a Test fleet. What does Test do? A couple of those incidents and it won't be long before the University has to set all of CFC to blue standings (if they wish to remain in Fountain, of course.) The University becomes a member of CFC, by proxy.

What exactly about any of that sounds neutral? I don't care if the University is neutral or not, but don't pretend that they aren't compromising their principles. The moment they set any of the nullsec sovereignty alliances to a blue standing, they are doing away with any notion of neutrality. Pretending to the high ideals is just whitewashing the obvious. They've chosen a side in the sovereignty wars. And that side is the CFC.

Syndicate

If the University is serious about its neutral standings, why would they not set-up shop in Syndicate? It's an extremely active NPC nullsec region. It houses some of the most experienced and successful small-gang PvP alliances in the game (Agony, Rooks and Kings, Rote Kapelle, Clockwork Pineapple.) If nullsec PvP experience and training is the goal of a University nullsec camp, then no better place to be than Syndicate.

17 comments :

  1. After tenal and burn Jita are done, I'm gonna go camp the uni. Good times good times

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  2. Fuck it, let em join CFC. ;-) more targets!! \o/

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  3. Certainly some will say we're choosing sides, though this is far from the first time we've been blue to a sov null alliance. Frankly we don't care about TEST's space and will do absolutely nothing to defend it if it comes under attack. If this seems ungrateful, then too bad.

    The likelihood of our setting up a nullsec camp off our own back was extremely remote. Not enough will to make it happen. When this offer came in, I saw it as the perfect opportunity to jump start the Uni's null program, and that's exactly what I intend to do.

    We're only going to be there for a few months, anyway. It'll be fun!

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  4. Learn to read the threads in full on the e-uni forums which are public and you might actually learn something.

    Test had blue standings with e-uni up until a couple of months ago and a PL hotdrop.

    Test and e-uni are at +5 which under the uni rules means they arent allowed into joint fleets.

    Test is friendly with Red Alliance, you might have heard of C-J6MT.

    E-uni are sticking to the npc pocket.

    Test doesnt need e-uni to watch the back door.

    NPC Fountain whilst small is very active in terms of pvp. However as you have already stated its not Syndicate. The problem with Syndicate right now for e-uni is they would be instantly shredded by the likes of Agony, R&K and Rote Kapelle. NPC Fountain allows them to ease themselves back into Nullsec.

    The blue standings are not permament and will be reset after the camp has run its course.

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    1. Agreed - while a camp in Syndicate would be great for the PVPers, it's not really a good spot for newbies getting their first taste of nullsec. Fountain is deep enough that it's relatively 'secure' (at least to the point that you can keep track of neutral activity), and should give unistas a taste for what it's like living in sov space.

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  5. The uni has an open policy. Anyone invading test could just ask the uni to be +5.

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  6. Oh the joys of nullsec blues and who you can/can't shoot at as well as space politics metagame crap. I think you just summed up about half of what I hate about nullsec.

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  7. @Anon#2 Test and RA might be friendly now, doesn't mean that lasts forever. RA and Nulli were sorta friendly a couple weeks ago. Not so much anymore.

    @Darian Not sure I know what you mean by "setting up a camp off our own backs"? You choose a station/pocket in NPC nullsec, you go there, set up a base. Not at all different how you set-up the lowsec pocket. Considering the popularity of the nullsec camp within the Uni, I fail to see how there'd be no will.

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  8. Also funny is this choice of allies. CFC, including Test, are famous for their "griefing" shenanigans, which I thought was the opposite of what the Uni stood for.

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    1. They're also famous for their support of new players, and having active, populated space (rather than swathes of empty regions which would not be a great place to experience nullsec). Honestly, CFC is probably the best host for this kind of thing.

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  9. I could swear the uni used to have a 0.0 presence in Geminate back in the day, just after SAS and VOC placed the first station in the system next to BWF-ZZ god if I can remember the name of it, been a while since I payed a visit. I can definitely remember smart bombing uni pods and frigates in BWF-ZZ

    Zandramus

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  10. It's easy to exist in fountain being blue to test but not to cfc. 99% does it fine. Looking forward to sharing space and good fights with the univistas.

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  11. "There are, of course, caveats to any such move. The lowsec camp already decreased PvP roams via the Ivy League Navy [ILN] (the University's PvP department) by an estimated 50%"

    I don't know where you are pulling the 50% figure from. In any case, you are getting things around the wrong way. There were already very few roams prior to the LSC as the ILN had sort of fallen apart (the rule tat all ILN officers FC/SC a fleet or lead a class 3 times a month is observed more in its breach than anything else), the LSC just ended up as a place for anyone with PvP inclinations to go to.

    The ILN is being re-organized, but the time it takes seems to indicate the best being the enemy of the good.

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  12. First off I would like to point out that as a "Blogger" you should probably do some research other than hear about something and make a blog post about it as you think of imaginary problems that the UNI has.

    I honestly don't have anything better to do for a while so i will attempt to show you what is really going on at this Null Sec Camp.

    And second, to reply to your post @Anon#2: The Null sec camp has been clearly stated to be a "test" camp in a 0.0 system, and if something goes wrong/is about to go wrong, they can not only all leave via jumpclones, but after TEST space is "stable" again they can come back and get their ships out. And if that doesn't work then Black Frog can reach the NPC pocket that the UNI will be /confined to/ (aka no roams outside of it)from the surrounding low sec in Aridia. Sooooo they don't really have to worry about leaving anything behind if they are forced to evac.

    1. Post your numbers wher you got the "PvP roams via the ILN have declined by an estimated 50%". Not only do I believe that the number of roams led by an ILN officer have decreased more than that, but the number of OTHER roams set up by ordinary members has gone up by a fair bit. Check their killboard for the last few weeks.
    2. "The ILN will be on life suuport"? Please state why the ILN is necessary to the UNI now that there is not only one camp very close to Aldrat, but one very far away in NPC Nullsec? Is the purpose of the University to form very formal fleets and go roaming a few times a week based out of high sec or to get new players more exposure to the different parts of EVE? I don't know about you but I look back on the 3-hour formup times of the UNI fleets as terrible and not at all representative of the rest of EVE.
    3. Do you really live in null sec and not know what a pod jump is? Simply set your med clone to Aldrat, undock, and ask someone to shoot you. Costs a few hundred thousand ISK and there is no cooldown to this. Not only that, but if you stick to jumpclones there is also a camp very nearby Aldrat, I believe it is called the Low sec camp.
    4. In your mind why do the newer players have to be restricted to high sec? If you can fly a rifter you can join either of the camps gaining firsthand experience more rapidly than the classes based out of Aldrat will run. Not only is firsthand experience more fun than any E-UNI roam I have been a part of, it taught me more of the specifics than the classes ever did. I would like to point out again that if you choose to stay in high sec thats great and all, but you should look for other high sec corporations that are perhaps more specialized the the UNI.
    5. As a current TEST member I would like to express how little I and others in TEST dislike flying through the NPC pocket other than when we recently burned all of their POSes to the ground. Our existing jump bridge network allows you to go right around it. Not only will we not fly there while the UNI is there, (as we don't like to if we can avoid it)but they will not have access to any of our intel channels and we, theirs. So if the UNI does get overwhelmed by Godfathers not only can we not hear them ask for help, but we will be inclined NOT to respond unless they come out of the NPC pocket.
    Part 1...

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  13. 6. "They have a new channel of recruitment." Is that so? Are you honestly suggesting that many TEST corps do not already recruit from the UNI? Is that how far seperated from the subject at hand you really are? Obviously there will be many who choose to leave the UNI after their time with the Null sec camp to join TEST Alliance, there is no doubting that. However, why is this a negative? As stated above the UNI should not be the final resting place of many new pilots, but merely a stepping stone to something greater. If the issue is with being too friendly to TEST, how many other null sec alliances have areas of NPC sov near them? And of those alliances, how many have asked the UNI if they would be interested in a null sec camp near them? 0. Thats how many.
    7. I would like to iterate again that Darian has clearly stated that this camp will be a test (no pun intended) and is meant to try to start up an active part of the UNI in null sec. It is no surprise that null sec warfare and sov warfare are two of the UNI's weakest teaching areas. And who better to teach then a major alliance who happens to have sov that they hold and regularly participate in large-scale null sec PvP?
    8. "What about the rest of the CFC?" I believe I can say this without being kicked but the rest of CFC is not allowed to rat in Fountain. Thats pretty much that. And why would they jump 10-20 jumps just to rat in our space when they can undock and rat closer to their own home systems?
    9. "Is the University going to tuck tail, evacuate all their assets back to safe space, not firing a single shot to defend their new friends and their new home away from home? I would doubt it very much. That's not a particularly grateful attitude." I believe you missed the part where the UNI is confined to the NPC space except for using the TEST markets. There will be no PvP related roams outside of the NPC pocket.
    10. "Goonswarm ratting Tengu..." Answered above. But in reality if the UNI found a Goon ratting in the NPC pocket in the middle of Fountain I bet the diplos would laugh at him.
    11. "They've chosen a side in the sovereignty wars. And that side is the CFC." Coming from someone living in Stain (Read: Enemies of CFC) I am not surprised that you would take this stance. However if you wish to "right this wrong" then everyone else has to step up their recruiting game. Maybe invite future Null sec camps near them when possible, or advertise a few UNIstas to drop corp to join yours for a few days/weeks to get a taste of what your corp/alliance is like.

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  14. Hi Poetic.

    I would say that TEST can already healthily recruit from E-UNI, given that two TEST corporations actively recruit from E-UNI, and Dreddit also has a bunch of ex-unistas.

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  15. As an ex-unista and a new player to the game, I can say that I spent about two weeks in high sec, two in low sec, and one in a war with RvB. I wanted PvP so I was told to go to low sec. I did fine, tackled a few BCs and BSs for the blob. After getting popped during a hero tackle, I asked what I did wrong. But instead of helping me, the group was too busy herping and derping about their kills and inflating their e-peens. A week or so later, we had the mutual war with RvB which Eve-Uni got wrecked. Our 100 man fleet met another 100 man fleet of RvB and the FC had a melt down where he went "primary is... primary is... omg mic problems, someone else call primaries!" We got mopped up. I quit after that and moved on because learning PvP is something I genuinely wanted to do. The blobbing, the egos, and the drama llama were too much to bear.

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